The Community was established by Mr Kevin Horgan and Mr Frank Carr in 1979. Recently Mr Horgan has resigned/stood down and his behaviour reported to police. Mr Carr and Mr Dudley have stood down from all leadership positions in the Community.
In reply to your comments on the other thread, I would feel very very uncomfortable if people felt compelled to tell of the details of any of Kevin's sexual abusive activities on this blog.
I suggest that if you want to know more, ie a summary of some of his alleged 'indiscretions', then contact Tony Walsh. He may or may not discuss them with you.
It is wrong to publicly accuse someone of sexual abuse and not publicly disclose some support of this accusation. I am not going to attack any submission nor try to defend any accusation because, as I said, I don't know the truth. However, it is libelous to make public accusations without evidence.
I have no interest in salacious attributes, but I would like to know of
what Kevin is accused as he, a member of my extended family, has been accused
on this forum.
If Tony made any public accusation of sexual abuse against Kevin, I would indeed ask him.
Tony is one of the current people who are trying to manage the situation in Bethel.
As such he may tell you of what has transpired. My referral to him is because he may be able to give you some information (summary of events etc) that may help you in your finding of the truth. I think this may be better than hearing it from the blog forum. I do not believe that Tony has made any accusations against Kevin or anybody else. I think that he is trying to handle this in a open way that hopefully the best for all.
I agree with HG. "No one in particular", I agree a public blog is probably not the best forum for hearing such things, however, quite suggestive levels of accusation are being made on this website... which is even less appropriate, given people involved were not consulted. Who are you to decide what parts of a person's dirty laundry should be aired???
What this blog amounts to is a witch hunt as the people mostly being accused have been given no opportunity to defend themselves......not they they would probably bother to the likes of such narrow minded people! I will have nothing more to do with it unless I see more deflammatory remarks which I may feeled compelled to rep[ly to.
Whether this is about religion or sexual abuse or in other cases, fraud or stealing or mis treatment of animals....some people's comments have crossed the line as to what is an appropriate thing to say in a public forum. I urge you to consider how you would feel if this were your friends, workmates, family or even an aquaintance who is being accused in such a one-sided and inappropriate forum.
You are talking to someone who knows first hand the abuse that has occurred in the BCC.
You say this blog is a "witch hunt" and "narrow minded people" well get your facts correct. I have lived this life style for over 20 years, and it is FACTS are being told. whether to the police, family members, general public! I should know, I lived it!!!!!!!
I am going through pain for my family, myself and my extended family, though I know GOD IS WATCHING OVER US AND PROTECTING US.
couldn't help myself from commenting 'betrayed'.....have some balls and take responsibility for the decision YOU made....there was no torture, chains or even threats! You just proved my point about the whole non-Christian attitude of this mission you are on....tell the police whatever and your family and friends but what assistance do u think the general public will give you?
You are kidding yourself if you think you are doing this....in this manner....in God's name!
Sort out your own issues and forgive yourself for the wrong decisions you have made and leave it there....if u need help ....get it! But if you insist on soiling people's names and reputations, at least be big enough to admit it for self satisfaction.........no point lying to yourself!
You may want to read my other blogs before passing judgement! I HAVE BALLS!
I have lived this and if you read, I have not "soiled peoples name" nor big enough to admit self satisfaction". Read my blog, from the beginning. I have lived this, yet I feel I have handled this whole nightmare with dignity and grace.
ASK ANYONE PAST AND PRESENT ( who know who Iam- I am STRAIGHT DOWN THE LINE!, A SPADE IS A SPADE)
I am seeking more guidance, though don't under estimate the damage done by those mentioned in previous blogs by others.
I reiterate.......if you need help....go get it. I have issues and I see a psychiatrist on a needs basis....we all have our issues. Post a call to ex- commo people, or Bethel haters or "kev, frank, Pam, Sue " haters and get together and form a support group! It works for AA, eating disorders, drug addiction, OCD, and many, many other everyday issue people have. I am sure it will help you, and give you support and perhaps facilitate your healing.
But, PLEASE, don't insult the public by pretending that this kind of posting is healing you. AA don't post their issues on a public website, nor do paedophiles or even rape victims....despite feeling angry and hurt at those who harmed them or made them the way they are. What is done is done. Leave the punishment to the courts or to God.
If you are going to continue to kid yourself that you are raising these issues in a public forum in God's name....you have a VERY long healing process before you! The fact that some (eg: ML) need such a long winded statement to justify their postings speaks volumes to me! Its not really doing the trick ...is it?
But I wonder whether I've missed the point....I thought it was healing you were after....I'm thinking now....it's more like revenge! Examine your own motives and see what you come up with........I doubt the "public" are going to be the answer to your troubled prayers!!!
"Hating people" is not my style and I don't think posting the "baggage" of Bethel past and present on line is true and fair. I agree.
Though true and fair, inappropriate dealings has occurred in the BCC and it is being investigated by the correct and proper foundations. That you cannot argue with.
From a family going through HELL, revenge is not what I want, JUSTICE IS WHAT I WANT!
then keep it within your family and don't influence the public with any half-fact based....suggestive comments! Not saying you don't have facts...but you don't state them...and nor should you....but keep them where they belong...with those of you who know the facts so people's imaginations and gossipy tongues don't run wild.
Hey, I agree, I don't feel I have devolved or said any information that isn't the truth. I have kept so much within my family. This is why it is so hard.
I no longer want to enter into anything, where I feel belittled or challenged for something I KNOW I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. I spent a lifetime experiencing this and you cannot do this (psuedo-objective).
I agree, peoples tongues do run wild, though if you want the truth speak to Rob Crothers or Tony Walsh, that is who I see making the wrongs, RIGHT.
I have been reading the recent posts and am dismayed. It appears to becoming a slanging match and pseudo-objective, please allow betrayed to express their feelings. They are the one that is feeling this, not you. It is not up to anyone of us to tell people how they should be feeling or acting about this situation as all reactions are going to be different.
It is by people not believing what ex-members have said or are saying, that the abuses are perpetuated. I, for one, would like to know KH's 'alleged' indescretions. I would like to know about the financial irregularities (ones that I don't already know about). I would like to hear other people's experiences, not only because the telling in a very public forum can be a means of healing, but because I want to sort through the chaff to get to the hay. p-o you sound (and plese forgive me, cos I know you won't like it) still in Bethel and still controlled by what you have been conditioned, over many years, to believe in. You can't heal a boil until all the pus is exposed and got rid of - no matter how you hate hearing it. People who don't listen to another's hurt and abusing all over again.
If Bethel is to survive this, there must be open and yes, even confronting, talk/discussion/listening going on. People must get angry - isn't that a step in the healing process. People have to vent. I would have thought that a blog is the perfect forum to do so.
I know alot. I have told you a snippet of my identity....purely because it is not in the best interest of anyone, for you to know who I am. You will not know what I know.....you never could because there is no-one else in my situation.
Most of what you think I don't understand ...I do...for reasons I cannot explain to you. I am not in Bethel but believe me...I know it all. I am neither defending nor condemning....all I am saying is I think most of these comments are doing more harm than good for anyone.
For the accused....unsubstantiated and un defended
For the abused - anger and gossip not healing...I'll leave it there.
I'd like to tell youmore but ....it will do you no good, the accused no good, and me no good. So lets work it out ourselves with the appropriate health authorities and leave such 'blog site' to less emotionally and personally destructive issues such as - where to build the next stadium or what to do with the recycled plastic bags!!!
P-O I think your ananolgy of the AA meeting and them airing their problems publicly is all wrong. THis is exactly an like an AA meeting except we are sitting around in a virtual circle airing our grievances - supposedly - without judgement or condemnation. THe only people who know about this blog have an interest in what's happening because they have been affected and word has got around to them that there is this great opportunity to unburden themselves of some long-held angst. Joe Blow down the virtual street ain't gonna think - hmm, Bethel blog - let's do it. They don't know Bethel from a bar of soap. It is a select few and not the 'general public' who are participating - it is a virtual AA meeting in that regard and in AA meetings every tiny bit of dirty laundry is aired with no judgement or censorship. The thing is, perhaps, in considering this a virtual AA or BB meeting is keeping the contents confidential to those on the blog and perhaps not gossiping about it to unconnected friends or acquaintances. I suggest allow people the freedom to express their opinions and hurts no matter how they may irk you. Take every thing said with a pinch of salt and then take on board what sits well with you and ignore the rest. That's the way I operate. Soome things will resonate, others will be of no importance.
you obviously have no feeling for those involved./ This is NOT an AA site, it is NOT secure and for you to think that what is said here is not searched by newspaper, columnists, gossipmongers and religion and catholic haters is a VERY naive few. This is the WWW.....get real! There IS no confidentiality!
omg....is this someone thinking rationally....obviously reading anfd keeping quiet....well done...I applaude you...what would he do? I don't have the answers...though I have a pretty good idea.... i think. Do unto others as he does unto you.... each man will face JC in heaven...let him deal with it. We... might screw it up and make the wrong judgement!
I am not without sin....I will not throw stones. I will get help when I need it from a professional and I hope those who have hurt others will do the same. We cannot make them nor can we fix them or what they have done. We can work on fixing ourselves though!
I see your point. Very well put. But who'd would bother? Bethel is not that important to the outside world. Not yet, anyway. And well - if journo's are trolling for Bethel 'trash' and 'gossip' why haven't we heard about it in the news. Why hasn't their been sensationalist headlines?
And please - don't tell me about feelings I have or don't have - to quote your fine self - You will not know what I know.....you never could because there is no-one else in my situation.
A last thought - if there is NO confidentiality - does that mean AA meetings are not confidential??
I do enjoy sparring and you have given me food for thought in your last comment which I shall now take away with me and think about. Have a good night.
I guess that whenpseudo objective is saying that people have no feelings they are meaning having no feelings for the perpetrators of the bullying and pressure and abuse over the years. Unfortunately the same names will arise because abuse happens by its very nature to those who are not in power from those who are in power. And I know lots of people who are previous members and would say that all they feel is a relief that at last some of their issues seem to be believed. And I also notice on the blog site that most of the emotion comes out when people like pseudo objective try to get on and tell all those of us who were there - " just move on and grow up." A
At the risk of sounding repetitive I think that it IS good if the site helps people feel connected and able to move on - sure there is some anger but over the years lots of very sad things happened. And while its easy to wonder now how I ever just did as I was told ( I know all you supporters of Bethel would say well you did not have to do it) I can only say read some cult books. When you have weekly meetings where a group of people pressure you to do certain actions you end up losing all sense of proportion. As always if anyone is reading this who has left Bethel and is having any trouble - I wish you all the best - get happy find the fun in life - we other ex-members know exactly what you are going through and don't worry - you will come out a happy person. Pay no attention to the people who try to shut you down.
thanks for your comments, they were very sincere. I think i know your situation, and over the years i have sometimes thought about how you are going. It must have been very difficult for children who grew up in Bethel, but you seem to have come through your difficulties, good for you.
i just want to say that i have chosen to remain in the community for a long time, even tho i have always had my own mind about things, and i have never accepted anything from Bethel as unquestionable truth. actually i never accept anything from anyone without question - not from bethel, not from the catholic church, not from the bible, not from what i hear god saying, and not from me - everything i hear is heard thru my limited experiences and imperfect ears and brain. i believe that people interpret things in different ways and try to make sense of the world thru those interpretations, and often they conflict with others they are close to, which can create conflicts. let me say that i have tried all my adult life to realise that we each only see our world thru our own limited experience, and i think this has helped me not to be too quick to dismiss other people's points of view. i also realise that a lot of the way people interact with others and respond to events is coming thru hurts and fears. it's just how we are. it helps me to be patient with others and with myself.
In Bethel this means for me that when someone leaves bethel for whatever reasons, i have absolutley no problem with it at all, i feel no sense of betrayal, i don't think they have done anything wrong in leaving. however i realise that a lot of people in bethel over the years have not thought like this towards people who have left - i personally can't go along with that, it just doesn't sit right with me. if you feel hurt by the way bethel people have treated you for leaving, i feel sorry for you and for them.
But get this: it also has allowed me to stay in bethel and maintain the relationships with my friends there. if i don't agree with what kevin says, or what my 'head' said, or what someone else in my group said, i don't think it is the end of the world and the end of our relationship - i just happen to think something different of that particular thing -but i still listen to their interpretation and file it away in my mind - it's no biggie for me; . they are my friends whether or not i agree with them about that thing, even if they are getting anoyed with me. for some reason they don't bully me too much because they know that it doesn't bother me and that i don't fight back - i'm happy to hear their point of view because i genuinely feel that i can learn at least something from it. marriages break up all too easily for lack of this sort of accommodation.
so when you say that someone who has been in bethel for 24 years must be brainwashed if they don't agree with what you are saying, i can reply to you and say, 'well, it's not quite true' - for me it's just a matter of choosing to like people more than i like something that they are saying (which seems to change over the years anyway). and it's about accomodating and sometimes compromising. i'm often perceived as not being in 'unity' with the 'Body'; and i cope with that by again reminding myself that i need to think for myself and come to my own decisions and that we learn as we go. i can see that you are the same. but it's obviously easier for me as adult to adult than it was for you as child to adult.
i also read widely. i have walls full of books and literature about all sorts of stuff, as many people do. but my reading deliberately includes things that i haven't believed or been exposed to. in bethel i have been discouraged from getting 'wisdom' from non-bethel sources - and i think that that is just very dangerous. it is classic cultic thinking. i think people are right about bethel being a kind of cult - it has some telling characteristics - this is not necessarily all bad btw, otherwise i would have left a long time ago.
please, everybody, don't think everyone in bethel is the same insofar as 'brainwashing' goes. if people in bethel can't cope with your different point of view and start getting on their high horse about it, then they may indeed be brainwashed and one-eyed . but similarly, if people outside of bethel can't cope with bethel's teaching and nurture hate towards bethel, then i fear they may be similarly one-eyed. that doesn't mean that your hurt is not valid - i'm sure it is, but it seems to be doing the same thing you may be accusing bethelites of doing.
all people, in bethel or out, live and let live. nobody has the whole truth. i don't anyway, and believng that i don't seems to help me.
It seems, is neither recognised or denied in professional circles. There appears to be conflicting evidence as to it's effectiveness. I would be reluctant to use the term if I wanted to maintain credibility. Is there a clearer way to describe this behaviour?
There are just a few issue with fence sitting old timer - are you saying that you had no idea about all the problems over the years - so you thought people just left for small matters? Are you saying that you did know but did not stand up and disagree? And are you saying that you now still feel happy to give your support to an organisation that at the very least seems to mis-represent itself ( selling raffle tickets to help youth work?) You must realise that if you understand bethel as you say you do that you don't actually know anything much about what went or is going on in other groups - the secrecy aspect meant only the ex-elders knew everything. At the very least your life seems an uncomfortable fence sit - I personally left for that reason years ago. And how come you have to stay in bethel just to keep friends with people - should you not be able to be friends with anyone? And when you say bethel teaching - the ex-elders did most of it - do you agree with what was said? What in fact does Bethel stand for that you think is good and worth staying for? No one has the whole truth but people who are now trying to let it out seem to be accused on this blog of not knowing the truth or not being willing to forgive - but how about getting the truth out first? If people who have left have a problem with bethel its rather odd that there is such a lot of them - doesn't it sound a warning to you to look a bit harder - maybe if you did you might in fact as you say have left "years ago" Once again I post this for all the people who have left and might not feel able to answer these type of move on comments.
I had no knowledge of any ongoing sexual misconduct.
I am not saying people left for small matters, I have already said that. In my opinion, what i think about why people left is totally irrelevant I've never thought that it would have been better for those who left to have stayed in bethel. i don't know why anyone would say that i would think that. it's everybody's right to leave for whatever reason they have. i genuinely do not think that bethel is a better place than anywhere else they may chose to go.
I don't know if i'll stay in Bethel, we'll see. the organisation will be quite different to what it was, i feel sure, so hopefully it might be less exclusive and arrogant. but i'll still wait and see.
You ask me if i did not know about what was going on in other ggroups and about some secrecy stuff. I don't know what you are referring to. are you asking about sexual misconduct stuff, in which case my answer is no, i don't know of any; or are you referring to bullying stuff, in which case my answer is yes, and i don't agree with it or like it and have spoken against it over the years.
Re keeping friends in Bethel, the reality is that you don't get to see bethel people much when you leave; and i don't llike that either.
Most of 'bethel teaching' was pretty much just general christian living stuff. The more contraversial stuff was usually given by Kevin, and I often took it with a grain of salt.
"What in fact does Bethel stand for that you think is good and worth staying for?" Christian values, social support. It's a bunch of nice people (almost all the time).
"If people who have left have a problem with bethel its rather odd that there is such a lot of them - doesn't it sound a warning to you to look a bit harder - maybe if you did you might in fact as you say have left "years ago"" i have looked as hard and have looked harder and longer than most. i chose to stay. that's my right, and you shouldn't give me a hard time for my choice.
"Once again I post this for all the people who have left and might not feel able to answer these type of move on comments." Are you saying that you don't agree with my 'live and let live' comment? If you are, i guess that's your right, and i'd be interested to hear more of your point of view. my choice is this: if people want to leave bethel, let them and don't harass them for it; and if people want to stay in bethel, let them and don't harass them for it. i'm posting here to express my concerns about bethel. so let me. i'm not here to have a go at anyone in bethel or out of bethel. if i were to have a go at people, you can bet your life it would be at people in bethel, because that is what is relevant to me.
I really don't see why you seem antagonistic to my comments. as far as i can see, we are on the same side. we both see so many things that we don't like about bethel or think should change in bethel. yet because i'm still in bethel you seem to have taken an automatic adversarial position. i haven't taken this position. but i'm happy to keep the discussion going as long as it is helpful for you and me and others; it's good to get other's opiniions; i welcome it.
:-)
Ex- Bethel wrote:
26 minutes ago
Reply
There are just a few issue with fence sitting old timer - are you saying that you had no idea about all the problems over the years - so you thought people just left for small matters? Are you saying that you did know but did not stand up and disagree? And are you saying that you now still feel happy to give your support to an organisation that at the very least seems to mis-represent itself ( selling raffle tickets to help youth work?) You must realise that if you understand bethel as you say you do that you don't actually know anything much about what went or is going on in other groups - the secrecy aspect meant only the ex-elders knew everything. At the very least your life seems an uncomfortable fence sit - I personally left for that reason years ago. And how come you have to stay in bethel just to keep friends with people - should you not be able to be friends with anyone?And when you say bethel teaching - the ex-elders did most of it - do you agree with what was said?What in fact does Bethel stand for that you think is good and worth staying for?No one has the whole truth but people who are now trying to let it out seem to be accused on this blog of not knowing the truth or not being willing to forgive - but how about getting the truth out first?If people who have left have a problem with bethel its rather odd that there is such a lot of them - doesn't it sound a warning to you to look a bit harder - maybe if you did you might in fact as you say have left "years ago"Once again I post this for all the people who have left and might not feel able to answer these type of move on comments.
For a person who is a friend of a friend of an elder's kid, who hasn't been in Bethel, who knows an awful lot, you are asking us to trust you that you know more and you say it is would be detrimental if you disclosed it.
We got ourselves in trouble for believing people who had this kind of attitude and perspective.
"I am right, right, right; you are wrong, wrong, wrong!"
Knowledge is power, KH had 'the mind of God" on many matters.
You seem to portray the same attitude in that you know more, and have decided it is in our best interest that you do not share your knowledge. This reminds me of the garden of eden. This is covered in the very interesting book by Bishop Robinson, referred to elsewhere in this blog.
This is all to familiar to us, even dangerous. Why? because you could even be KH himself!
A Victim, I also thought it could be Kevin but if you re-read her posts - you'll see it's a reasonably young 'girl'. It all sounds very immature.
I am finding her posts quite amusing as she's making it worse for him. She probably started off with good intentions but you can tell it's taken hold of her and she's now doing it because of her own issues, she can't help herself! What's the most ironic thing about her posts and motives is that it is having the opposite affect of what she is trying for. Poor misguided Psuedo-Objective! She said she gets help when she needs it but obviously hasn't learnt from her therapy visits how to deal with people and their issues.
HQ has managed to stay objective and open minded even though he is related to the them. Well done HQ.
I have been reading Psuede's posts and people are replying to her questions but as she has no defence, she is not replying to their valid arguments. She is merely coming back with more judgements upon all of us while telling us to be good Christians!!!!!! I wonder if she calls herself a christian or maybe she has just learned passing judgement onto others without looking at herself from spending too much time with KH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After saying she was going away, she has since written another 6 POSTS!! in the one day!! Looks like someone has a problem
I quote from Psuedo-Objective - I urge you to consider how you would feel if this were your friends, workmates, family or even an aquaintance who is being accused in such a one-sided and inappropriate forum.
While PO is considering the alleged perpetrators feelings, I will be considering the feelings of the victims and their family and friends. Anyone who has been in Community is a victim in some way.
Psuedo - get a life! And stop interfering in ours!
I am also not being teased by Psuedo's "I know more believe me" comments as anything she has said to date holds no substance and I am taking it all with a grain of salt.
I do though agree that the information she has [although not relevant to this forum] could only have been told to her in an unethical way given that KH would have been told confidentially which again, weakens KH's credibility. Does she not see this?????????????????????
how about....... 1. you are wrong..... am not female. 2. not in nor never was in commo. learn a lot from therapy, but don't waste my time talking about people like you. " A victim" 3. don't give hoots whether u believe me or not...believe what you will....and good luck in healing. think u will fail....u spend too much time on this site worrying about other people's indiscretions....how is your family going?
I am and going to continue to assume PO is a girl.
PO lost her credibility and integrity in her first post!
First she said "friend of a friend of an elders kid" and in the post put all this information she knew, that was mean't to be confidential. How should a friend of a friend of an elders kid know this anyway and why would they, claiming to be so removed from this situation, be posting on here anyway. Why would they care. In the next post, she may have realised the lack of argument given that she's so removed and changed it to being very close to an elders kid and more or less growing up with them, experiencing all the good and bad and knowing them really well.
I think PO should be ignored, she has no argument anyway
Finally!! - you hit the nail on the head about Psuedo (J). It was obvious from the start and her blogs were showing more of the Bethel culture each time. Psuedo who is telling us to stop posting these blogs so that K is not found out by the public...we are the public and everyone has a right to know. As for psuedo's so called Catholic ways I find it quite amusing to see her doing quite the opposite to that of the first commandment. (did psudeo's parents/school/church/ not instill this into them as a child)
THOU SHALT NOT JUDGE!!!
It seems Psudeo also needs counselling especially to help her remove the bitterness towards the VICTIMS.
OOOoo YEA....one more thing... the more psudeo backlashes the more reason the supposed newspapers will want to use these blogs!! hey psuedo?!. Im sure you do know alot!!
If you dont like anyone opening up on the net and voicing their opinions (isnt that what forums are for?) maybe you should listen to your own medicine and get over it...and for get about this website!!!
not very christian really from someone telling us to be christian
and....
"u spend too much time on this site worrying about other people's indiscretions"
very funny coming from someone who's a "friend of a friend of an elders kid" who themselves is spending so much time on a site which is mean't to be so removed from their lives! PO has a slight problem with double standards I think.
PO maybe you shouldn't go away - you make me laugh
To quote your words "u spend too much time on this site worrying about other people's indiscretions....how is your family going?" I think this really is what you should be doing.
And if you were never in commo (another dead givaway that you are related to the accused as the word commo ONLY is used by ACTUAL Commo people who are or infact have been in Bethel... can someone please correct me if I am wrong?
Psuedo...some advise.. WAKE UP AND SEE THE SUNSHINE!!
A recent story run by Catholica Australia suggested that Bethel was selling assets in order to protect them from future claims. The only major asset owned by Bethel is the building located in West Leederville. This building is not for sale. As stated previuosly, the new leadership condems the abuse which is alleged to have occurred. Bethel reiterates its offer to pay for counselling for those who have suffered, be they current members or ex members.
Lets have a laugh because [she] has been digging herself a big hole with her series of double standard comments and judgements. The last one of "and good luck in healing. think u will fail" is by far the most unforgiving, unchristian thing you could say. If I could be bothered counting, I would say she's told us to be more christian over 10 times. And for someone who is telling us to stop wasting time on here, she has posted over 10 posts (all of which are telling us how bad we are) Me thinks she's a big bad hypocrite!!
[She] sounds very emotional and musn't be liking watching the KH EMPIRE fall!
What a real pity this site is now being used, by some, for trifia and irrelevant comments. Surely such contributors are missing the central point about the importance of the alleged abuses. Having read all of the links and comments, I am still none the wiser about the allegations. Who was involved in the alleged abuses? What were they?
Surely there are appropriate police and legal remedies available to deal with them, if they occurred. Why has this not happened, especially as some of them are repoted to have occured over many years? Did people who left not take steps to report them, when free of the comminity? Why all the secrecy still?
It must be terrible for the effected wives and children.
The whole thing is very mystifying and so sad to an outsider.
I can only see one comment from psuedo-objective that indicates gender. Psuedo asks: "were they allowed to date boys?", implying that the child psuedo knows wasn't. If psuedo is close to a female child of an elder, they are possibly married to one.
I believe psuedo has some valid arguments based on Jesus' teachings:
1) Don't judge others
2) Forgive those who wrong you
However, Psuedo is rather reactive and judgemental. Psuedo's comment that Bethel "got less strict as the community grew over 10-12 years" suggests they are not so young. My own experience is that people become more reactive and judgemental as they grow old, which supports this conclusion.
I am aware of people who have never been in Bethel who use the term commo. They are usually close to young people in Bethel.
Hi all, I have created a group on this site for past and present commo kids (naturally, these are not likely to be kids now). It is called (Ex-)Children of Bethel Covenant Community. http://commokid.groups.vox.com/ Feel free to post there if you fit the description.
I'm not prepared to say what's alleged to have happened, and i'm not sure that if you enquire to Bethel that they will tell you. it may not be something that can be told to the public, at least not yet. some peeople in bethel have gone to the police.
your question about people who have left not reporting incidents to the police is interesting, and i never stopped to think of it before because i have never been aware of any sexual allegations before these last few months. i guess your question is best answered by those people here who have suggested that this sort of thing has happened to them or others who have left in the past, and i'd be very interested in hearing their answers.
I don't think the article really says that about Bethel. It states that the editor knows the "principal people whom allegations have been made against" and that "allegations have been raised that property might be being disposed of in the event that should any victims be identified in subsequent legal proceedings they would be denied compensation."
So, he knows Kevin, and some people think Kev is selling his house so he can't get sued for it.
Yes [she] did make only one comment however she said she went to school with the Elders kid since primary school. Any of their "husbands or wives" are older and I don't think would come across so immature, emotional and ignorant. I thought people had less control (as she is displaying) when they were younger and get better at disiplining this with age.
Yes she also states some correct teachings about forgiveness but has got quite nasty and has some heavy double standards herself so a bit hard to take on board. I would imagine the people on here just want to get it all out, good, bad and ugly without being preached to about forgiveness YET. Anyone who has been in Bethel has been continually preached to by people with double standards so it doesn't sit well.
She has openly told us to have forgiveness in our hearts but has dismissed everyone's plea for understanding on her part. Have you read her posts on the other pages??
I will have to agree with you on that one Finally!!
saying she went to school with an elders kid since primary school gave it away in that one sentence.. some people arent good at seeing how others will percieve their somewhat poorly disguised self description.
I have read all of Psuedo's posts as far as I am aware. I think I have read all of the posts. Psuedo did say that they have known KH since primary school. I am not immediately aware of all of the elders childrens spouses ages.
I have acknowledged that Psuedo is reactive and judgemental, and therefore displaying double standards. I recognise that there is a correlation between age and discipline.
'Wake up and see the SUNSHINE!!' are you suggesting that psuedo is lying about who they are? if so, who do you think it is?
'Finally' you "imagine the people on here just want to get it all out, good, bad and ugly without being preached to about forgiveness". I note that the individual who started this blog has stated that they started it as an 'experiment'. I was disturbed that they would use this word.
I feel that the way in which psudeo reacts to everyone's posts that they are alot "closer" than just a friend. Im sure one who may try to disguise themselves from being so close to this whole affair may indeed say that they are a friend of a friend, hoping to divert people's immediate thoughts of who this person could really be.
This is the internet, my profile even states Im from United States will everyone believe everything they read??. The internet is a very powerful tool where by many actually live under different identities. I myself in the past was an avid chat room fan for years. I have seen many and met many people claiming to be that of another person, trying also to delve information out of people by claiming to be that of someone else. It is all too easy to see for me I suppose as I can pick up on small subtlties of how one may write.
In saying this, Psudeo is retaliating so much that it gives me more reason to believe they are closer to this issue than they say they are. Not to mention the cultured phrases only Bethelites would use. By the way this person writes also shows more female nature than that of a male as males tend not to backlash at peoples statements as much as we females are so profoundly known to do
Lastly, if this person so firmly believes and backs Bethel's founder...why had we NEVER seen her ?? Why was she never at the Gathering, Sunday nights, etc??To stand up for something that she so STRONGLY believes is right seems to me she definately HAS been in Bethel and cannot admit that some of these faults of this congregation are actually true.
In saying this I would also believe that she is hurting very much, and I cant feel her pain though I do feel sorry for her as she too is a victim.
I feel that some people are just focusing on the sexual side. There is also the control issue which can be said mental abuse. I would ask you to consider looking up the Domestic Violence web site - some aspects of the abuse is very similar. We can not judge people and there feelings - right or wrong. People can not judge on Bethel unless they have lived the life. Untill you have been in the situation there is no understanding. I like many others are a victim of the mental abuse and the effects still play a huge role in my life at present. To CONSORTIUM you really have NO idea of the damage that has been done to the many people on the site and elsewhere as you stated you have NOT lived the life (hence no true understanding)
The issue of power is the initial problem, and it then is expressed in various ways.
The misuse of power if it does not go into the sexual, it goes into other areas.
For me, I had to put up with and deal with the inappropriate use of power, attempted control. I stood up and did what I wanted, but at a huge cost as I was pressured by many others who followed the leader.
Power corrupts,
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I chose to stay in the group, but to stay in I needed outside counselling to help me deal with the expressions of the controlling forces.
I won the war, but still suffer from the wounds sustained on the way. Recovery is slow, but continuing.
Comments
I have no interest in salacious attributes, but I would like to know of what Kevin is accused as he, a member of my extended family, has been accused on this forum.
If Tony made any public accusation of sexual abuse against Kevin, I would indeed ask him.
I agree with HG. "No one in particular", I agree a public blog is probably not the best forum for hearing such things, however, quite suggestive levels of accusation are being made on this website... which is even less appropriate, given people involved were not consulted. Who are you to decide what parts of a person's dirty laundry should be aired???
What this blog amounts to is a witch hunt as the people mostly being accused have been given no opportunity to defend themselves......not they they would probably bother to the likes of such narrow minded people! I will have nothing more to do with it unless I see more deflammatory remarks which I may feeled compelled to rep[ly to.
Whether this is about religion or sexual abuse or in other cases, fraud or stealing or mis treatment of animals....some people's comments have crossed the line as to what is an appropriate thing to say in a public forum. I urge you to consider how you would feel if this were your friends, workmates, family or even an aquaintance who is being accused in such a one-sided and inappropriate forum.
Well.well,well,
Dear Psuedo-objective and others,
You are talking to someone who knows first hand the abuse that has occurred in the BCC.
You say this blog is a "witch hunt" and "narrow minded people" well get your facts correct. I have lived this life style for over 20 years, and it is FACTS are being told. whether to the police, family members, general public! I should know, I lived it!!!!!!!
I am going through pain for my family, myself and my extended family, though I know GOD IS WATCHING OVER US AND PROTECTING US.
couldn't help myself from commenting 'betrayed'.....have some balls and take responsibility for the decision YOU made....there was no torture, chains or even threats! You just proved my point about the whole non-Christian attitude of this mission you are on....tell the police whatever and your family and friends but what assistance do u think the general public will give you?
You are kidding yourself if you think you are doing this....in this manner....in God's name!
Sort out your own issues and forgive yourself for the wrong decisions you have made and leave it there....if u need help ....get it! But if you insist on soiling people's names and reputations, at least be big enough to admit it for self satisfaction.........no point lying to yourself!
What a shock to an outsider!
On face value, what a time of sadenss and difficulty for the wives and children!
What were the 'discretions' or 'abuses'?
They are all so vague in the postings, but clearly not so in the hearts and minds of many contributing to this 'blog'.
Unbelievable to an outsider.
Dear Psuedo-objective,
You may want to read my other blogs before passing judgement! I HAVE BALLS!
I have lived this and if you read, I have not "soiled peoples name" nor big enough to admit self satisfaction". Read my blog, from the beginning. I have lived this, yet I feel I have handled this whole nightmare with dignity and grace.
ASK ANYONE PAST AND PRESENT ( who know who Iam- I am STRAIGHT DOWN THE LINE!, A SPADE IS A SPADE)
I am seeking more guidance, though don't under estimate the damage done by those mentioned in previous blogs by others.
I reiterate.......if you need help....go get it. I have issues and I see a psychiatrist on a needs basis....we all have our issues. Post a call to ex- commo people, or Bethel haters or "kev, frank, Pam, Sue " haters and get together and form a support group! It works for AA, eating disorders, drug addiction, OCD, and many, many other everyday issue people have. I am sure it will help you, and give you support and perhaps facilitate your healing.
But, PLEASE, don't insult the public by pretending that this kind of posting is healing you. AA don't post their issues on a public website, nor do paedophiles or even rape victims....despite feeling angry and hurt at those who harmed them or made them the way they are. What is done is done. Leave the punishment to the courts or to God.
If you are going to continue to kid yourself that you are raising these issues in a public forum in God's name....you have a VERY long healing process before you! The fact that some (eg: ML) need such a long winded statement to justify their postings speaks volumes to me! Its not really doing the trick ...is it?
But I wonder whether I've missed the point....I thought it was healing you were after....I'm thinking now....it's more like revenge! Examine your own motives and see what you come up with........I doubt the "public" are going to be the answer to your troubled prayers!!!
Dear Psuedo-objecective and others,
"Hating people" is not my style and I don't think posting the "baggage" of Bethel past and present on line is true and fair. I agree.
Though true and fair, inappropriate dealings has occurred in the BCC and it is being investigated by the correct and proper foundations. That you cannot argue with.
From a family going through HELL, revenge is not what I want, JUSTICE IS WHAT I WANT!
Hey, I agree, I don't feel I have devolved or said any information that isn't the truth. I have kept so much within my family. This is why it is so hard.
I no longer want to enter into anything, where I feel belittled or challenged for something I KNOW I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. I spent a lifetime experiencing this and you cannot do this (psuedo-objective).
I agree, peoples tongues do run wild, though if you want the truth speak to Rob Crothers or Tony Walsh, that is who I see making the wrongs, RIGHT.
I have been reading the recent posts and am dismayed. It appears to becoming a slanging match and pseudo-objective, please allow betrayed to express their feelings. They are the one that is feeling this, not you. It is not up to anyone of us to tell people how they should be feeling or acting about this situation as all reactions are going to be different.
It is by people not believing what ex-members have said or are saying, that the abuses are perpetuated. I, for one, would like to know KH's 'alleged' indescretions. I would like to know about the financial irregularities (ones that I don't already know about). I would like to hear other people's experiences, not only because the telling in a very public forum can be a means of healing, but because I want to sort through the chaff to get to the hay. p-o you sound (and plese forgive me, cos I know you won't like it) still in Bethel and still controlled by what you have been conditioned, over many years, to believe in. You can't heal a boil until all the pus is exposed and got rid of - no matter how you hate hearing it. People who don't listen to another's hurt and abusing all over again.
If Bethel is to survive this, there must be open and yes, even confronting, talk/discussion/listening going on. People must get angry - isn't that a step in the healing process. People have to vent. I would have thought that a blog is the perfect forum to do so.
I know alot. I have told you a snippet of my identity....purely because it is not in the best interest of anyone, for you to know who I am. You will not know what I know.....you never could because there is no-one else in my situation.
Most of what you think I don't understand ...I do...for reasons I cannot explain to you. I am not in Bethel but believe me...I know it all. I am neither defending nor condemning....all I am saying is I think most of these comments are doing more harm than good for anyone.
For the accused....unsubstantiated and un defended
For the abused - anger and gossip not healing...I'll leave it there.
I'd like to tell youmore but ....it will do you no good, the accused no good, and me no good. So lets work it out ourselves with the appropriate health authorities and leave such 'blog site' to less emotionally and personally destructive issues such as - where to build the next stadium or what to do with the recycled plastic bags!!!
I think the time has come to ask the inevitable: What Would Jesus Do?
omg....is this someone thinking rationally....obviously reading anfd keeping quiet....well done...I applaude you...what would he do? I don't have the answers...though I have a pretty good idea.... i think. Do unto others as he does unto you.... each man will face JC in heaven...let him deal with it. We... might screw it up and make the wrong judgement!
I am not without sin....I will not throw stones. I will get help when I need it from a professional and I hope those who have hurt others will do the same. We cannot make them nor can we fix them or what they have done. We can work on fixing ourselves though!
Good call neutral...I am going to bed!
I see your point. Very well put. But who'd would bother? Bethel is not that important to the outside world. Not yet, anyway. And well - if journo's are trolling for Bethel 'trash' and 'gossip' why haven't we heard about it in the news. Why hasn't their been sensationalist headlines?
And please - don't tell me about feelings I have or don't have - to quote your fine self - You will not know what I know.....you never could because there is no-one else in my situation.
A last thought - if there is NO confidentiality - does that mean AA meetings are not confidential??
I do enjoy sparring and you have given me food for thought in your last comment which I shall now take away with me and think about. Have a good night.
At the risk of sounding repetitive I think that it IS good if the site helps people feel connected and able to move on - sure there is some anger but over the years lots of very sad things happened. And while its easy to wonder now how I ever just did as I was told ( I know all you supporters of Bethel would say well you did not have to do it) I can only say read some cult books. When you have weekly meetings where a group of people pressure you to do certain actions you end up losing all sense of proportion.
As always if anyone is reading this who has left Bethel and is having any trouble - I wish you all the best - get happy find the fun in life - we other ex-members know exactly what you are going through and don't worry - you will come out a happy person. Pay no attention to the people who try to shut you down.
http://www.advocateweb.org/hope/notanaffair.asp
thanks for your comments, they were very sincere. I think i know your situation, and over the years i have sometimes thought about how you are going. It must have been very difficult for children who grew up in Bethel, but you seem to have come through your difficulties, good for you.
i just want to say that i have chosen to remain in the community for a long time, even tho i have always had my own mind about things, and i have never accepted anything from Bethel as unquestionable truth. actually i never accept anything from anyone without question - not from bethel, not from the catholic church, not from the bible, not from what i hear god saying, and not from me - everything i hear is heard thru my limited experiences and imperfect ears and brain. i believe that people interpret things in different ways and try to make sense of the world thru those interpretations, and often they conflict with others they are close to, which can create conflicts. let me say that i have tried all my adult life to realise that we each only see our world thru our own limited experience, and i think this has helped me not to be too quick to dismiss other people's points of view. i also realise that a lot of the way people interact with others and respond to events is coming thru hurts and fears. it's just how we are. it helps me to be patient with others and with myself.
In Bethel this means for me that when someone leaves bethel for whatever reasons, i have absolutley no problem with it at all, i feel no sense of betrayal, i don't think they have done anything wrong in leaving. however i realise that a lot of people in bethel over the years have not thought like this towards people who have left - i personally can't go along with that, it just doesn't sit right with me. if you feel hurt by the way bethel people have treated you for leaving, i feel sorry for you and for them.
But get this: it also has allowed me to stay in bethel and maintain the relationships with my friends there. if i don't agree with what kevin says, or what my 'head' said, or what someone else in my group said, i don't think it is the end of the world and the end of our relationship - i just happen to think something different of that particular thing -but i still listen to their interpretation and file it away in my mind - it's no biggie for me; . they are my friends whether or not i agree with them about that thing, even if they are getting anoyed with me. for some reason they don't bully me too much because they know that it doesn't bother me and that i don't fight back - i'm happy to hear their point of view because i genuinely feel that i can learn at least something from it. marriages break up all too easily for lack of this sort of accommodation.
so when you say that someone who has been in bethel for 24 years must be brainwashed if they don't agree with what you are saying, i can reply to you and say, 'well, it's not quite true' - for me it's just a matter of choosing to like people more than i like something that they are saying (which seems to change over the years anyway). and it's about accomodating and sometimes compromising. i'm often perceived as not being in 'unity' with the 'Body'; and i cope with that by again reminding myself that i need to think for myself and come to my own decisions and that we learn as we go. i can see that you are the same. but it's obviously easier for me as adult to adult than it was for you as child to adult.
i also read widely. i have walls full of books and literature about all sorts of stuff, as many people do. but my reading deliberately includes things that i haven't believed or been exposed to. in bethel i have been discouraged from getting 'wisdom' from non-bethel sources - and i think that that is just very dangerous. it is classic cultic thinking. i think people are right about bethel being a kind of cult - it has some telling characteristics - this is not necessarily all bad btw, otherwise i would have left a long time ago.
please, everybody, don't think everyone in bethel is the same insofar as 'brainwashing' goes. if people in bethel can't cope with your different point of view and start getting on their high horse about it, then they may indeed be brainwashed and one-eyed . but similarly, if people outside of bethel can't cope with bethel's teaching and nurture hate towards bethel, then i fear they may be similarly one-eyed. that doesn't mean that your hurt is not valid - i'm sure it is, but it seems to be doing the same thing you may be accusing bethelites of doing.
all people, in bethel or out, live and let live. nobody has the whole truth. i don't anyway, and believng that i don't seems to help me.
Brainwashing
And are you saying that you now still feel happy to give your support to an organisation that at the very least seems to mis-represent itself ( selling raffle tickets to help youth work?)
You must realise that if you understand bethel as you say you do that you don't actually know anything much about what went or is going on in other groups - the secrecy aspect meant only the ex-elders knew everything.
At the very least your life seems an uncomfortable fence sit - I personally left for that reason years ago. And how come you have to stay in bethel just to keep friends with people - should you not be able to be friends with anyone?
And when you say bethel teaching - the ex-elders did most of it - do you agree with what was said?
What in fact does Bethel stand for that you think is good and worth staying for?
No one has the whole truth but people who are now trying to let it out seem to be accused on this blog of not knowing the truth or not being willing to forgive - but how about getting the truth out first?
If people who have left have a problem with bethel its rather odd that there is such a lot of them - doesn't it sound a warning to you to look a bit harder - maybe if you did you might in fact as you say have left "years ago"
Once again I post this for all the people who have left and might not feel able to answer these type of move on comments.
A Victim, I also thought it could be Kevin but if you re-read her posts - you'll see it's a reasonably young 'girl'. It all sounds very immature.
I am finding her posts quite amusing as she's making it worse for him. She probably started off with good intentions but you can tell it's taken hold of her and she's now doing it because of her own issues, she can't help herself! What's the most ironic thing about her posts and motives is that it is having the opposite affect of what she is trying for. Poor misguided Psuedo-Objective! She said she gets help when she needs it but obviously hasn't learnt from her therapy visits how to deal with people and their issues.
HQ has managed to stay objective and open minded even though he is related to the them. Well done HQ.
I have been reading Psuede's posts and people are replying to her questions but as she has no defence, she is not replying to their valid arguments. She is merely coming back with more judgements upon all of us while telling us to be good Christians!!!!!! I wonder if she calls herself a christian or maybe she has just learned passing judgement onto others without looking at herself from spending too much time with KH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After saying she was going away, she has since written another 6 POSTS!! in the one day!! Looks like someone has a problem
I quote from Psuedo-Objective - I urge you to consider how you would feel if this were your friends, workmates, family or even an aquaintance who is being accused in such a one-sided and inappropriate forum.
While PO is considering the alleged perpetrators feelings, I will be considering the feelings of the victims and their family and friends. Anyone who has been in Community is a victim in some way.
Psuedo - get a life! And stop interfering in ours!
I am also not being teased by Psuedo's "I know more believe me" comments as anything she has said to date holds no substance and I am taking it all with a grain of salt.
I do though agree that the information she has [although not relevant to this forum] could only have been told to her in an unethical way given that KH would have been told confidentially which again, weakens KH's credibility. Does she not see this?????????????????????
how about....... 1. you are wrong..... am not female. 2. not in nor never was in commo. learn a lot from therapy, but don't waste my time talking about people like you. " A victim" 3. don't give hoots whether u believe me or not...believe what you will....and good luck in healing. think u will fail....u spend too much time on this site worrying about other people's indiscretions....how is your family going?
Maybe!
I am and going to continue to assume PO is a girl.
PO lost her credibility and integrity in her first post!
First she said "friend of a friend of an elders kid" and in the post put all this information she knew, that was mean't to be confidential. How should a friend of a friend of an elders kid know this anyway and why would they, claiming to be so removed from this situation, be posting on here anyway. Why would they care. In the next post, she may have realised the lack of argument given that she's so removed and changed it to being very close to an elders kid and more or less growing up with them, experiencing all the good and bad and knowing them really well.
I think PO should be ignored, she has no argument anyway
Finally!! - you hit the nail on the head about Psuedo (J). It was obvious from the start and her blogs were showing more of the Bethel culture each time. Psuedo who is telling us to stop posting these blogs so that K is not found out by the public...we are the public and everyone has a right to know. As for psuedo's so called Catholic ways I find it quite amusing to see her doing quite the opposite to that of the first commandment. (did psudeo's parents/school/church/ not instill this into them as a child)
THOU SHALT NOT JUDGE!!!
It seems Psudeo also needs counselling especially to help her remove the bitterness towards the VICTIMS.
OOOoo YEA....one more thing... the more psudeo backlashes the more reason the supposed newspapers will want to use these blogs!! hey psuedo?!. Im sure you do know alot!!
If you dont like anyone opening up on the net and voicing their opinions (isnt that what forums are for?) maybe you should listen to your own medicine and get over it...and for get about this website!!!
This is getting funnier. She just put:-
"and good luck in healing. think u will fail"
not very christian really from someone telling us to be christian
and....
"u spend too much time on this site worrying about other people's indiscretions"
very funny coming from someone who's a "friend of a friend of an elders kid" who themselves is spending so much time on a site which is mean't to be so removed from their lives! PO has a slight problem with double standards I think.
PO maybe you shouldn't go away - you make me laugh
Dear Psudeo,
To quote your words "u spend too much time on this site worrying about other people's indiscretions....how is your family going?" I think this really is what you should be doing.
And if you were never in commo (another dead givaway that you are related to the accused as the word commo ONLY is used by ACTUAL Commo people who are or infact have been in Bethel... can someone please correct me if I am wrong?
Psuedo...some advise.. WAKE UP AND SEE THE SUNSHINE!!
A Victim and Wake Up And See the Sunshine,
Lets have a laugh because [she] has been digging herself a big hole with her series of double standard comments and judgements. The last one of "and good luck in healing. think u will fail" is by far the most unforgiving, unchristian thing you could say. If I could be bothered counting, I would say she's told us to be more christian over 10 times. And for someone who is telling us to stop wasting time on here, she has posted over 10 posts (all of which are telling us how bad we are) Me thinks she's a big bad hypocrite!!
[She] sounds very emotional and musn't be liking watching the KH EMPIRE fall!
What a real pity this site is now being used, by some, for trifia and irrelevant comments. Surely such contributors are missing the central point about the importance of the alleged abuses. Having read all of the links and comments, I am still none the wiser about the allegations. Who was involved in the alleged abuses? What were they?
Surely there are appropriate police and legal remedies available to deal with them, if they occurred. Why has this not happened, especially as some of them are repoted to have occured over many years? Did people who left not take steps to report them, when free of the comminity? Why all the secrecy still?
It must be terrible for the effected wives and children.
The whole thing is very mystifying and so sad to an outsider.
I can only see one comment from psuedo-objective that indicates gender. Psuedo asks: "were they allowed to date boys?", implying that the child psuedo knows wasn't. If psuedo is close to a female child of an elder, they are possibly married to one.
I believe psuedo has some valid arguments based on Jesus' teachings:
1) Don't judge others
2) Forgive those who wrong you
However, Psuedo is rather reactive and judgemental. Psuedo's comment that Bethel "got less strict as the community grew over 10-12 years" suggests they are not so young. My own experience is that people become more reactive and judgemental as they grow old, which supports this conclusion.
I am aware of people who have never been in Bethel who use the term commo. They are usually close to young people in Bethel.
I have created a group on this site for past and present commo kids (naturally, these are not likely to be kids now).
It is called (Ex-)Children of Bethel Covenant Community.
http://commokid.groups.vox.com/
Feel free to post there if you fit the description.
I'm not prepared to say what's alleged to have happened, and i'm not sure that if you enquire to Bethel that they will tell you. it may not be something that can be told to the public, at least not yet. some peeople in bethel have gone to the police.
your question about people who have left not reporting incidents to the police is interesting, and i never stopped to think of it before because i have never been aware of any sexual allegations before these last few months. i guess your question is best answered by those people here who have suggested that this sort of thing has happened to them or others who have left in the past, and i'd be very interested in hearing their answers.
I don't think the article really says that about Bethel. It states that the editor knows the "principal people whom allegations have been made against" and that "allegations have been raised that property might be being disposed of in the event that should any victims be identified in subsequent legal proceedings they would be denied compensation."
So, he knows Kevin, and some people think Kev is selling his house so he can't get sued for it.
It would be easy to take it the wrong way though.
Yes [she] did make only one comment however she said she went to school with the Elders kid since primary school. Any of their "husbands or wives" are older and I don't think would come across so immature, emotional and ignorant. I thought people had less control (as she is displaying) when they were younger and get better at disiplining this with age.
Yes she also states some correct teachings about forgiveness but has got quite nasty and has some heavy double standards herself so a bit hard to take on board. I would imagine the people on here just want to get it all out, good, bad and ugly without being preached to about forgiveness YET. Anyone who has been in Bethel has been continually preached to by people with double standards so it doesn't sit well.
She has openly told us to have forgiveness in our hearts but has dismissed everyone's plea for understanding on her part. Have you read her posts on the other pages??
I will have to agree with you on that one Finally!!
saying she went to school with an elders kid since primary school gave it away in that one sentence.. some people arent good at seeing how others will percieve their somewhat poorly disguised self description.
I have read all of Psuedo's posts as far as I am aware. I think I have read all of the posts. Psuedo did say that they have known KH since primary school. I am not immediately aware of all of the elders childrens spouses ages.
I have acknowledged that Psuedo is reactive and judgemental, and therefore displaying double standards. I recognise that there is a correlation between age and discipline.
'Wake up and see the SUNSHINE!!' are you suggesting that psuedo is lying about who they are? if so, who do you think it is?
'Finally' you "imagine the people on here just want to get it all out, good, bad and ugly without being preached to about forgiveness". I note that the individual who started this blog has stated that they started it as an 'experiment'. I was disturbed that they would use this word.
I feel that the way in which psudeo reacts to everyone's posts that they are alot "closer" than just a friend. Im sure one who may try to disguise themselves from being so close to this whole affair may indeed say that they are a friend of a friend, hoping to divert people's immediate thoughts of who this person could really be.
This is the internet, my profile even states Im from United States will everyone believe everything they read??. The internet is a very powerful tool where by many actually live under different identities. I myself in the past was an avid chat room fan for years. I have seen many and met many people claiming to be that of another person, trying also to delve information out of people by claiming to be that of someone else. It is all too easy to see for me I suppose as I can pick up on small subtlties of how one may write.
In saying this, Psudeo is retaliating so much that it gives me more reason to believe they are closer to this issue than they say they are. Not to mention the cultured phrases only Bethelites would use. By the way this person writes also shows more female nature than that of a male as males tend not to backlash at peoples statements as much as we females are so profoundly known to do
Lastly, if this person so firmly believes and backs Bethel's founder...why had we NEVER seen her ?? Why was she never at the Gathering, Sunday nights, etc??To stand up for something that she so STRONGLY believes is right seems to me she definately HAS been in Bethel and cannot admit that some of these faults of this congregation are actually true.
In saying this I would also believe that she is hurting very much, and I cant feel her pain though I do feel sorry for her as she too is a victim.